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> Crashes And Causes, Why good people go down
laure8anna
post Jun 9 2009, 10:57 PM
Post #81


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Thanks guys - lots of good advice and comment.

I didn't know it was illegal to ride a bike in a crosswalk. I should think it would be OK to ride just outside the crosswalk, as long as you are going with traffic and not against it. So at Bayview and Otis I definitely need to walk the bike in the crosswalk, or take the alternate route down the Bayview sidewalk as suggested.

Other problems comes up at the other end of Bayview. There is no easy way to get from Bayview (riding westbound in the travel lane) to the Shoreline bike trail without some funky maneuvers at the corner of Bayview and Broadway that always seem to involve multiple garbage cans stored on the sidewalk, someone walking a dog on a long lead, and several drivers zipping around the corner at high speed. Fortunately, there is a Buddha at the corner to thank every time I make it through unscathed. And a beautiful view of The City (Yes Eric, $5 of my attention is usually spent on the view.)

Also a heads up to everyone - the City will be reconstructing the bike trail that loops under the Bay Farm Island Bridge in the very near future, so that there will be a T intersection rather than a tight Y intersection at the Fernside end of the bridge. And the edge of the trail that is unraveling under the bridge will be repaired. If you want to give your two cents worth to the design/construction engineer, he's Ed Sommerauer at 749-5840.
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MacGyver
post Dec 19 2009, 04:18 PM
Post #82


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Flash and MacGyver perform their rendition of the "Peloton Pile Up" on the Park Street Bridge, bike/pedestrian lane. 8:20, Saturday Morning, 19, December 2009

What happened,

Flash, Ron, and I were at the back of Brian's hill-ride group this morning while riding over the Park Street bridge. As is fairly normal for this time of year, the steel diamond plate pathway on the bridge was covered in dew. If I understand the situation correctly we had a walker up that _may_ have surprised Flash. While dealing with this walker somehow Flash fell. (I'm sure Flash will fill us in on the details from his point of view in a following post.) Meanwhile, Ron had been hailing his friends with the rowing crew on the water below. I was paying attention to Ron and the crew, instead of where I was riding. Next thing I know Flash has fallen, and so I ran into his bike and over him. I'm not sure, but I think Ron was in front of me. If so, Ron _was_ paying attention, and was able to avoid the "Flash Crash" ™. I'm sure Ron will also fill in some details from his point of view.

The aftermath,

The good news is that Flash apparently only suffered a minor bruise to his hip, while I hopefully only suffered some road-rash and a minor bruise to my left knee. Flash told me that I must have hit his bike, not him. Apparently I flew right over him during my part of the crash. Flash felt well enough to continue. I decided to finally practice what I preach for the first time today. I walked/rode home to ice and compress my knee. So far it's doing well and I hope to be out riding tomorrow morning.

Things that went wrong,

This morning's group was comprised of all experienced riders. We should have known better, and hailed "walker up" as we usually do. If this hail was called, either it wasn't carried back, or I just didn't hear it. I will let Flash relate what caused him to fall. I think he may not have heard about the walker and was moving too fast for conditions to react to the hazard.

I on the other hand, did just about everything wrong!

1. As many of you know, I've made a habit of showing up with coffee in hand at the start of our rides lately. I've fooled myself into thinking that I could compensate for this handicap. I convinced myself that my experience would keep me out of trouble. Wrong!!!
2. I let myself be distracted from the task at hand, I know better than this. I do talk to myself from time to time reminding myself of how important it is to pay enough attention to where I'm going so that I can be prepared for, and react to unforeseen hazards on the road.
3. I know that the metal path on the bridge collects condensation and dew, I know that I need to allow extra room because I'm more likely to have a problem when the steel is wet.

Final verdict,

I was not present enough this morning, thus I made a bad situation worse. The fact that I know better, and teach others how to avoid these situations makes it all the more embarrassing. The best news is that I didn't hurt Jim. I would be feeling responsible for his injuries if I had hurt him. Not just embarrassed, as I am feeling now.

Please learn form my mistakes this morning. Do your best to be totally present whenever out driving on the roads. You really don't want to hurt anybody.

I am treating this as a major reality check, I hope you will too.

Be safe out there,

j




--------------------
Lycraphobic, and proud of it!
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Flash
post Dec 19 2009, 06:18 PM
Post #83


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Thanks Mac, I'm fine, just a big whelp on my side which will turn pretty colors soon...

Having continued the ride, I pieced together this time line from the sworn statements of those involved:

Actually, 4 riders went down on the bridge.

1.There was a walker up ahead, on or near the concrete downramp, and that was called out.

2.The riders on the downramp applied brakes, Geoff, who was still on the metal bridge, grabbed some brakes and his front wheel went out from under him, and he went down.

3.Amy, still on the bridge, seeing Geoff go down, attempted to slow and she went down on her left side too.

4.Amy was around 15' ahead of me, and Ron was between us. Ron and I were observing the women's rowing crew on the water beneath us. I saw Amy go down and went for the brakes, and adjusted course a bit to the left, and my front wheel went out from under me like it hit ice. I did a left side break fall on the steel deck, and my bike went right. Out of the corner of my eye I saw Mac looming over me, and I think I turned my head away instinctively, and then a blur of motion, the sound of bike on bike and body thudding on steel. Ron stayed on his bike between the falls, somehow hugged the pedestrian railing, even took some green paint on his brake levers.

5. Mac did not roll over me, but maybe my rear wheel, which took a slight wobble. Not sure how he landed. By this time people came back to check on us, and we were assessing body parts for damage. Luckily it was only soft tissue for me and a knee hit for him. Amy and Geoff were ok.

I underestimated the power of water on steel to take me out. There may be a slight film of oil on the bridge which makes it ice-like when wet. I felt stupid going down, but there was nothing that could be done to undo the physics. Hear me now and believe me later, it happens so fast it makes your head spin!

I agree with Mac, we need to tighten up our bridge crossing discipline in winter, but other times as well.
This would include slowing down and leaving more distance between riders, clear call outs for peds or other riders too.

So luckily, only minor injuries sustained but a solid lesson learned.


--------------------
30 spokes of a wheel all join at a common hub
Yet only the hole at the center
Allows the wheel to spin. Lao Tzu
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ratarth
post Dec 19 2009, 11:33 PM
Post #84


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I think the only thing I might be able to add is when I first hit my brakes I too started to slid. So I let off the brakes but there was no where to go with traffic stopped ahead so I hit the brakes again and slid towards the rail, that's when I grabbed the rail to stop myself. I think my old racing instincts must have kicked in, when you start to slide get off the brakes the bike (or car will correct it's self) this is why all new cars have anti lock brakes.

Earlier before we went over the bridge Amy's back wheel hit my front wheel out of reflex (again I think from race car days) I called out to Amy and placed my had on her back but rode straight until we separated. The big thing there was to not over react and swerve away where I would have hit the person on the other side of me.

It's easy to say these things but a lot harder to do out of reflex, I crashed many time in my race car while learning. I hope the rest of you can benefit from my driving mistakes and lessons.

Try not over react and don't steer away from a collision instead try to stay with it and ride it out.

If you do start to slide get off the brakes to regain traction, let you bike help you stay up.

Some mistakes might have been made today but a lot of what happened was out of our control all the more reason to stay alert while riding out there.
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laure8anna
post Dec 20 2009, 01:58 AM
Post #85


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Sounds painful! I'm glad no one got thrown under the bus. Perhaps this is just the encouragement I need to start obeying that sign at the end of the bridge that says "Bicycles on Sidewalk Must Dismount". It takes 2 minutes longer to get over the bridge, but hey, it makes it easier to wave to the rowers.


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flatrideleader
post Dec 20 2009, 09:21 AM
Post #86


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as someone with some background in crashing...it is always "when and if" you crash. speed recovery time to all injured riders.


ER


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What if the hokey pokey really is what it's it all about?

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lisa
post Dec 20 2009, 02:18 PM
Post #87


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Hey Flash: add one more to "wet conditions." It was my fall on the last Paradise Loop ride. We might as well learn from other's experiences. I had slowed down, and was transitioning from the street up onto the driveway of the restaurant we stop at in Tiburon. The graduated curb was painted red so you could see it, but I took it at too much of a horizontal angle, and flipped right over with bike on top of me. Best and biggest bruise I've ever had. The combination of the flat angle I took and the wet painted flat part of the curb was deadly.


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Life's tough--wear a helmet.
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Amy
post Dec 20 2009, 06:13 PM
Post #88


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Earlier before we went over the bridge Amy's back wheel hit my front wheel out of reflex (again I think from race car days) I called out to Amy and placed my had on her back but rode straight until we separated. The big thing there was to not over react and swerve away where I would have hit the person on the other side of me. It's easy to say these things but a lot harder to do out of reflex, I crashed many time in my race car while learning. I hope the rest of you can benefit from my driving mistakes and lessons. Try not over react and don't steer away from a collision instead try to stay with it and ride it out.

***
Ron's lesson above is a good one. When we bumped tires, I too had no where to go as I had someone to the left of me. Ron's steady hand on my back allowed us both to ride it out. I also recall sometime back, Brian described a clinic that he participated in where they practiced bumping into each other to learn how to control that situation. Not that I hope to be riding so close that this would be a common, but learning to avoid over-reacting is a valuable lesson. Ron - thanks.

As to my perspective on the bridge pile-up. I have been on the bridge before where there was the need to do a sudden stop, and that experience taught me to always leave a good amount of distance in front of me. However, even though I was able to brake in time, the bridge was as slick as ice and my front wheel could never gain traction. I had enough time to unclip, but that only helped to have a somewhat controlled fall, as my foot could not gain much traction either.

I know as bikers we hate to dismount and walk, but perhaps under certain conditions, that is the safe thing to do on that bridge. Or at least send a 'scout' ahead to see if someone is coming up the other way.




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double rider
post Dec 20 2009, 09:27 PM
Post #89


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I'll dismount and walk as long as all cars dismount and walk also!

However, I do agree, we do need more spacing under slick conditions, and our bumping drill that I did in a training clinic with Grizzly peak sure helps in these situations. Nowadays, I find that I get bumped often, and really don't worry about it. Ron's move was a good one.

BTW, we did have a great ride, although I didn't have a chance to write up a report. MacGuyver, hope your back with us soon!

Brian


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BowlderMan
post Jun 2 2010, 10:26 AM
Post #90


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I thought I would add Tom's crash to this topic because I have a comment or two. Here is Ken's description of it:

"As best as the four riders (Ken, Tom, Stacie and Bob) can tell, this is what happened: Heading south on 38th Ave approaching San Juan Street, Tom saw a car coming eastbound on San Juan (to our right). Tom took his right hand off the handle bar to point at the car as it approached the intersection, to indicate it as a possible hazard. We believe he hit an EBMUD valve cover with a slight divot right at that moment, causing his front wheel to turn drastically and throwing him over the handlebars. Happened VERY fast."

I wonder if, while riding in urban settings, we should spread out a bit more and dispense with hazard identification. I know that when I'm riding in that developing country we know as Oakland (w/r/t road conditions, including poorly seated valve covers - BTW, there is no excuse for poorly seated valve covers), I have stopped using any hand signals for turns unless absolutely necessary. My rationale is that taking one hand off my handlebars (in Oakland) could very well have me hitting something and ending up in Highland Hospital next to Tom. I know that it might seem inconsiderate to car drivers for me to not signal a turn (although I will if safety demands it), but, then again, hardly any car drivers seem to know what that little lever on the left side of the steering column is anyway, so I don't feel too bad.

If we ride spaced further apart in urban areas, there would be less need for identifying hazards with hand signals - i.e., it would be the same as if we were each riding solo. I would rather be able to ride more closely together because it's more fun to feel like you're riding with other people, but maybe there are certain situations when we should choose to do otherwise. What do you think?
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Stacie_T
post Jun 2 2010, 01:35 PM
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Re Tom's crash: We were spaced out sufficiently otherwise Bob and I would have landed on Tom or run him over, but I agree with not using hand signals at certain times, e.g., on a downhill where you want both hands on the bars or bad road conditions (Park Blvd. coming from Montclair). I think calling out hazards should be used instead of hand signals in some conditions.


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[size="3"]Ain't about how fast I get there, Ain't about what's waiting on the other side, It's about the climb![/size]
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flatrideleader
post Jun 2 2010, 04:40 PM
Post #92


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Stacie...good point about calling out and not pointing. besides those folks at the back of the line never see the point but can hear the shout-out


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Flash
post Jun 2 2010, 09:06 PM
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From what I've heard, it sounds very similar to something that happened to me on Park Blvd: I was descending through that big intersection just before you roll under the 580 overpass, and my front wheel hit some road ripple, jerked right, and for an instant I was starting to go over the bars. But by a miracle, I was able to jerk the wheel left and prevent the crash, but believe me, that put some (more) gray in my hair. The next time I was at that same spot, I stopped to see what had caused it, and could find nothing obvious... maybe a crack in the pavement but even that was subtle.

So, again, crap happens and despite our every precaution, there is the random element to consider. Its just part of the game.


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30 spokes of a wheel all join at a common hub
Yet only the hole at the center
Allows the wheel to spin. Lao Tzu
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